For Vince and Jennifer Williams, if it's 9:15 in the evening, it's dinner time.

If it's a weekend at camp, it's a vacation. If it's a trip to Cape Cod to visit a friend, it's the most extravagant, weird, "what-am-I-doing-here" moment in the lives of two Watertown natives who are as married to their coaching professions as they are to each other.

"We always look at other people and we're like, 'I wonder what they do? When they get home from a 9-to-5 job, what do they do?'" said Jennifer, entering her second year as the Jefferson Community College women's basketball coach and also a physical education teacher and coach of the South Jefferson girls lacrosse team. "We know what we do. Sometimes I wonder what it would be like (to have a different job). But then again, I wouldn't even know what to do."

The Williamses, together since they started dating at Watertown High School and married two years ago, have returned to Watertown and to their alma maters to coach two once-proud teams that are struggling on the field and facing indifference in the stands. These two former Cyclones, who each grew up on the city's south side, were standout athletes a decade ago, known for doing whatever it takes to help their team win.

But this is 2008, not 1997, and the coaching profession is more complicated than it was when Vince helped Watertown to the state Class AA regionals as a team-leading running back and Jennifer starred at point guard for championship-winning teams at Watertown and JCC. They are finding out what it's like to be married, to be a coach, and to be married to a coach. Yes, it's rewarding. But it's also time-consuming, stressful and frustrating.

Each enters this coming school season realistic, but upbeat, and ready for the challenge. And is it ever a challenge. JCC went 3-17 in Jennifer's first season as coach this past winter. Vince was hired in April as the head coach of a Watertown football team that has won exactly one game in the last two years.

It's their job to find a way.

"It's a hard lifestyle," Jennifer said. "It's busy, very busy. But I wouldn't take it away, the experiences and life that we have. Obviously, everyone doesn't have that lifestyle, but I think we're in it for the right reasons."

Both Vince and Jennifer realize they have much to learn when it comes to coaching. They are in their late 20s, only a decade out of high school and barely five years into their coaching careers.

But they look at the teenagers around them and they are concerned. They know they can teach them something that they already know: only through hard work will you get what you want.

"I think our generation, in particular, doesn't have the greatest name for (itself)," Jennifer said. "And I think that anything that we can do to show a kid for this coming generation that you need to work hard and you need to be respectful, and it's not all about the glamour and the stuff that they see on TV. Because that's what they see, and that's what they think that life is."

Vince sees athletes who believe they are bound for Division I. He points out just 16 players in the state went Division I last year. He sees players who don't work because they believe what they want will come to them regardless. They can acquire whatever they want in this on-demand world, right?

"It's just hard to get those kids to put the time and effort into things," he said. "And they really don't know until it's too late."

Jennifer sees it in the young women she coaches, too. She blames television for giving players artificially high expectations and a warped sense of accomplishment. "If I could only have my players watch — like cut their cable cord — the games during the season, oh, that would be great," she joked.

Neither Vince nor Jennifer needed to be told what hard work could achieve by the time they reached high school. Vince, at 5-foot-8, was never one of the tallest players on the team, but was as strong and quick as any of them. After each game, Vince and his father, Michael, would sit down and talk about what Vince could have done better.

Vince went on to become the most prolific rusher the Cyclones have ever seen. He still holds the record for the most career yards with more than 2,400, a striking feat considering the history of power football teams at Watertown High.

Vince, a year behind Jennifer in school, was recruited by a Division III school out of high school, but chose to attend JCC, where Jennifer was entering her second year.

"I have a strong feeling I was a part of that," Jennifer said.

Jennifer came to JCC grudgingly, at the urging of her parents, John and Myrna Knox. Jennifer Knox was a born athlete, who was manager of the Watertown girls basketball team under longtime coach Jerry Levine by the time she was in second grade.

As a varsity player, she helped lead the Cyclones to three straight Frontier League championships. Pat Bassett, who has since built a girls basketball dynasty at South Jefferson, coached Jennifer during her senior year at Watertown. He called her the best athlete in the league.

But Jennifer suffered from the same unrealistic expectations that she and her husband now see in their players. She thought she was too good for JCC, a school that nonetheless churned out women's basketball championships nearly every year.

Luckily for JCC — and her, she says now — Jennifer became a Cannoneer and excelled, playing a crucial part in two straight NJCAA Division III tournament appearances, including a 31-3 mark and a spot in the national championship in 1999.

Both Jennifer and Vince moved on to SUNY Brockport and both played in their respective top sports for the Golden Eagles. But Brockport wasn't her style. The look and the attitude was casual and Jennifer was used to coaches being strict. All of her past coaches were direct in what they wanted and Jennifer found that worked for her.

Jennifer took the advice of her coach at JCC, Jeff Wiley, a SUNY Cortland graduate, and transferred to Cortland in midsemester, leaving Vince behind in Brockport.

"Cortland was collared shirt, shirt tucked in, and Brockport was roll out of bed, go to class," Jennifer said. "I'm not knocking it. I'm not saying either way. It's just different styles, and (Cortland) was the style that I wanted for me. The style that I was familiar with from what I came from was demanding. ...

"But when I left, it was hard. It was hard because we had been together for three years to that point. And then, all of a sudden, I needed to make that decision. I think that's where we both kind of are OK. We're both individual people. However, I don't know if we can live without each other."

Finding the both of them in the same place during daylight hours is an undertaking. Like many couples, they get up in the morning, go to work and then return home to recount their day. But Vince and Jennifer arrive home about three or four hours later than most — after night fall, with another day of work barely eight hours away.

"Sports just consume our life," said Vince, a running back for the Red and Black for two seasons. "When we get up in the morning, we watch 'Sportcenter' together. Everything we do is around sports. ... (But) it's good to get a break, because if you coach two sports (Vince also coaches lacrosse in the spring), you don't want to get burnt out. Coaching a varsity sport is not like coaching a varsity sport 10, 15 years ago."

Both knew at a young age that they wanted to coach. Jennifer became an assistant for Cortland — a team she helped lead to the NCAA Division III Sweet 16 her senior season — a year after she graduated. The following year she was a high school coach at Newfield, a small school south of Ithaca, converting a team that had won twice in 10 years into a consistent winner. Her girls basketball teams went 49-21 during her four years there.

Vince, who completed his degree at Cortland, also took an assistant job on the Newfield football team. But his goal was to become a head coach. Jen was looking to coach at a college, preferably a four-year school. Still, they decided to return home, knowing their options were limited.

"I knew football was his dream," Jennifer said. "I said there's no four-year school (in Jefferson County). I'm not traveling an hour each way. I'll be fine, as the woman. I was fine, and then the JCC job opened."

Vince found his job as the head coach for Thousand Islands, a relative coup for someone only 22 at the time. He coached there for two seasons.

"I got pushed right into the scenario, which was great for me," he said. "It opened my eyes to a lot of things, not just coaching-wise, but dealing with organizational stuff, doing the stuff outside of the school, outside of coaching. I lucked out there. She was in the same scenario. She got thrown right into the fire, right out of college, taking over a basketball program (at Newfield). And we were coming (off) programs where there wasn't much success there. So we didn't have any pressure on us. If we won a couple games more, we looked great."

They are in similar situations again, the leaders of programs in dire need of improvement. But the stakes are a bit higher this time. People remember the glory years at Watertown High School and Jefferson Community College. They remember when the stands were full, or relatively so. For them, winning a couple of games more will work. This year. But not the year after that.

"I just don't want to see — he's a Watertown guy, I'm a Watertown girl — sports fade away," Jennifer said. "Because I think it teaches you so much."

The Cannoneers played most of last season with seven players. Jennifer, hired the May before the season, didn't get a chance to recruit. It's no wonder the team won just three games.

She has worked hard — there's that phrase again — to make sure this season is better. She has recruited 15 players to join the four that are returning this season.

"My expectation is I will love to have 12 on my team and I'll take any more than that," she said. "But at least 12 and make it a college basketball atmosphere."

Jennifer prefers the style of basketball that she played — aggressive, hustle for every ball, play defense and run like your hair's on fire. To play that style, she needs numbers to substitute players throughout games. And she can't afford to do what she did last year, which was play former Alexandria all-star Joni Cullen virtually every minute and at every position.

"I'd play point guard and then she'd have me playing forward two minutes later," Cullen said, "and back to point guard two minutes later."

But even after a physically and mentally exhausting season, Cullen returned, because she likes the game and believes in her coach.

"She's an amazing coach," she said. "She has improved everything about me in basketball. She pushes me harder than I've ever been pushed before, and, yeah, sometimes I don't like it, but she expects a lot out of us."

Last season forced Jennifer to grow up as a coach. The seven girls who played for her didn't have a lot of basketball experience. She battled to find enough players for practices, resorting to asking male students to help out, which eventually became demoralizing for her players.

Jennifer is direct when reviewing what she needs to make the program consistently successfully again. She wants to see professors, other faculty members, and yes, the school president, in the stands again. Her perfect world involves on-campus housing, which she said would allow JCC to compete with the other top junior colleges in the state.

Another goal, something as challenging as constructing dorm rooms along Coffeen Street, is changing the perception of JCC among area athletes.

Frustration rises in Jennifer's voice when she talks about it. She's fighting what she once was — an athlete that thought the local community college didn't deserve her. She has become a convert. And armed with her story, her dedication, and a struggling economy, she has a shot at converting others.

"I've coached at both levels (junior college and four-year Division III)," she said. "I see the Frontier League and what the communities think is a good player would not play at the Division III level in the SUNYAC conference. And that's OK. ... I'm just trying to get people to save money and time. Because I want to see kids play."

Vince's challenge lies not in sky-high expectations but in no expectations. Ever since Watertown football left the Northern Athletic Conference for Section 3, a move that critics have branded as a mistake, the program has struggled. As the losses mounted, the fans and the number of players dwindled, and the critics grew louder.

Longtime coach Kevin Wood, who led Vince to that championship in 1998 and many others, stepped down as varsity coach after last season, and Vince, a former Cyclones assistant, stepped in.

He knows what he faces, and he is matter-of-fact about the coming season.

"I'd like to win sectionals, but you have to be realistic," Vince said. "We've won one game in the last two years. Our schedule is so tough. There's not a weak team. I'd like to win two games. I think we can win four."

Vince's enthusiasm belies the team's recent history. He has basically ditched the power football game that has defined Watertown for so many years because he said the Cyclones don't have the size to build the huge offensive lines necessary. He has quizzed Dan Lounsbury, the former Red and Black quarterback and current SUNY Cortland offensive coordinator, for information on the spread offense, a strategy built on speed. The more he heard Lounsbury talk, the more he knew that this was the offense for the new Cyclones, a team whose strength lies in their receivers.

Vince also has altered the team's defense, thanks to new assistant coach Justin Rich, a former assistant for Ithaca College and the Red and Black. Vince was so taken with Rich's style during his Red and Black days that Rich was the first person Vince thought of after he was hired.

"I went after him. I just got on him, got on him because I knew he wanted to be a coordinator somewhere," Vince said. "... He lives and breathes football. He's just like me."

But on-the-field changes will take the Cyclones only so far. Vince, a physical education teacher at Ohio Elementary, is working on building the numbers at the Pop Warner, modified and junior varsity ranks. Like Jennifer and her wish for on-campus housing, Vince would like two or three modified football teams in the district, to better accommodate the 90 players signed up for the program.

He knows that he will fail, regardless, if he doesn't get more parents involved. Vince is blunt, saying parental support is almost non-existent, citing the mere seven or eight parents that have showed up at meetings.

"That's where it's got to change is getting the parents involved, the community involved," he said. "Friday nights, I don't care where you're at, it's usually football night. Those stands, everyone from the town should be in there. It hasn't been that way at Watertown, and it's disappointing."

There's a lot of work to do, for both of them and this year they will repeat the pattern that they've know for the last 12 years. Vince is busiest in the fall, Jennifer in the winter. One person is up, one person is down. They'll eventually cross paths and talk about it, as husband and wife. But in the meantime, catch ya later.

"We have a trusting relationship where we never wanted to hold each other back," Jennifer said. "I think we both knew how successful we were in our sports and knew where it could get us. Now neither of us were Division I athletes by any means. Bu the programs that we went to, if we didn't work hard while we were in high school and the first couple of years of our college life, we wouldn't be where we are now."